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Duke of Cornwall - Scottish Parliament's Standing Orders
 
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JonFlower



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:33 am    Post subject: Duke of Cornwall - Scottish Parliament's Standing Orders Reply with quote

I saw a letter on the CSP site regarding references to the Duke of Cornwall in the Scottish Parliament's Standing Orders:

Standing Orders

I dont think this has been posted here before... worth a look at section 9.11 and 9a.13

Regards,
JonFlower
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Scottish Republican



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically Carlo's supposed to be the "Duke of Rothesay" in Scotlandshire. (He also holds the title "Lord of the Isles", a hangover from the Norse kingdom in the Hebrides and IOM)
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Cornish Celt



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rule 9.11 Crown consent

1. Where a Bill contains provisions, or is amended so as to include provisions, which would, if the Bill were a Bill for an Act of the United Kingdom Parliament, require the consent of Her Majesty, the Prince and Steward of Scotland or the Duke of Cornwall, the Parliament shall not debate any question whether the Bill be passed or approved unless such consent to those provisions has been signified by a member of the Scottish Executive during proceedings on the Bill at a meeting of the Parliament.

It is interesting to note that, in this section, nowhere are there references to the 'Prince of Wales' , the 'Lord of the Isles and to the 'Duke of Rothsay and it does not make it clear that the Prince and Steward of Scotland and the Duke of Cornwall are the one and the same person. The first three titles clearly have no import. Quite why the Duke of Cornwall, as opposed to the Prince of Wales, in this most Scottish of Acts, should be mentioned in this way requires further analysis.

'Crown consent' arises in cases where Crown interests might be compromised or threatened. Crown interests invariably relate to land ownership and royal claims to land ownership. The Duke of Cornwall is expressly forbidden to hold property north of the border and so his mention in this Act must be questionable. I suspect that the inclusion of the Duke of Cornwall is a manifestation of the constitutional power inherent within this title, a suspicion that is reinforced by similar references in the Standing Orders of the Westminster parliament. Such power has been, and continues to be used, in the suppressiion of Cornish rights and identity.

Our brothers in Alba will need to remove this reference, and others similar, in all Scottish Acts if they truly are serious about their claims to independence. With feudal and completely undemocratic powers such as these that give the royals exclusive rights to land ownership and the associated wealth generating potential, Scotland will never be free from royal/English tyranny. Please Alex Salmond - when the time comes, do not retain Elizabeth Windsor as the Head of the Scottish state!

May I be so bold as to suggest that our Scottish brother contacts the CSP for further information via its web-site?
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JonFlower



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's certainly interesting. On Thursday I dropped the SP information service a brief message:

"I have looked at the "Standing Orders of the
Scottish Parliament" at
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/so/sto-4.htm and
have seen two very interesting reference to the "Duke of
Cornwall". Can you explain in layman's terms what "Rule 9.11
Crown consent" and "Rule 9A.13 Crown consent" actually means,
with an example with regards to the Duke of Cornwall."

"Dear Jon Flower,

Thank you for your email, which has been received by the Scottish Parliament Public Information Service. We are currently looking into your enquiry and will contact you again as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely,
Elizabeth Cantlie
Public Information Service
The Scottish Parliament

Tel: 0131 348 5000
Fax: 0131 348 5601
Textphone: 0845 270 0152"

I'll let you know the reply.
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JonFlower



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just had a reply:

Dear Mr Flower,

I apologise for the delay in replying to your email as we were waiting for advice from colleagues in other offices.

Crown consent is the formal consent given to place the Crown's prerogative and interests at the disposal of the Parliament for the purposes of the bill in question, and it is required when any provisions in a bill may affect the rights and privileges, private interests, or the hereditary revenues of the Queen or the Prince of Wales. When it is required, Crown consent is notified to Members of the Scottish Parliament (MSPs) in the Chamber by a Minister.

To date, Crown consent has been signified in relation to only three of the bills considered by the Scottish Parliament and in each case the reference is to HM The Queen alone. We cannot therefore provide any example of a reference to the the Duke of Cornwall. The three statements signifying Crown consent are cited below:

23 November 2000 - Salmon Conservation (Scotland) Bill: 'The Deputy Minister for Rural Development (Rhona Brankin): The business before us is to debate the Salmon Conservation (Scotland) Bill, but before I outline the main provisions in the bill, I would like to deal with a procedural matter in relation to Crown consent. For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Salmon Conservation (Scotland) Bill, has consented to place her prerogative and interests, so far as they are affected by the bill, at the disposal of the Parliament for the purposes of the bill.'

16 November 2006 - Planning etc (Scotland) Bill: 'The Minister for Communities (Malcolm Chisholm): I must begin with a statement on Crown consent. For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Planning etc (Scotland) Bill, has consented to place her prerogative and interests, in so far as they are affected by the bill, at the disposal of Parliament for the purposes of the bill.'

21 March 2007 - Rights of Relatives to Damages (Mesothelioma) (Scotland) Bill: 'The Deputy Minister for Justice (Johann Lamont): I am required to signify Crown consent. For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Rights of Relatives to Damages (Mesothelioma) (Scotland) Bill, has consented to place her prerogative and interests, in so far as they are affected by the bill, at the disposal of the Parliament for the purposes of the bill.'
The wording of the Scottish Parliament's Standing Orders is based on the requirement set out in Schedule 3, paragraph 7 of the Scotland Act 1998, the intention of which is to place bills of the Scottish Parliament in the same position as bills of the UK Parliament. (Schedule 3, paragraph 7, can be found at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/ukpga_19980046_en_13#sch3.)

I hope this is of some use to you, but please contact us if you have any further questions about the Scottish Parliament.

Yours sincerely,

Elizabeth Cantlie
Public Information Service
The Scottish Parliament
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many errors in this "Scottish parliament" statement...

Firstly, "depute" not "deputy" is the proper Scottish English form.
Secondly, it's not "her majesty", but "her grace".
Thirdly, the title "Prince of Wales" does not have currency in Scotland, nor does "Duke of Cornwall"

These are a few of the howlers of the British state. She should be styled "Her grace, Queen Elizabeth of Scots", if there is to be a title. None of this "II" crap, none of this "majesty" crap, and none of that "defender of the faith" crap either in Scotland - if they really wish to be correct. All of these are English titles - even "Prince of Wales" is in a perverse way.
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Abieuan



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, all that is correct SR.
It is easy to see why Charles is using the Cornwall name - Diana was Princess of Wales, they were known as the "Waleses". He probably doesn't want that to be rembered now that Camilla is the "Duchess of Cornwall". Every time "Prince of Wales" is mentioned, English people also think of Diana.

I've not got a problem with this, indeed, it gives Kernow more clout constitutionaly and raises her profile.
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