TINE Forums
 SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
start blogging your Cornwall now...
Welcome to TINE Cornwall. Discussing the future of Cornwall. Forum Index - View unanswered posts
Duchy created to provide an Income?
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Discussing the future of Cornwall. Forum Index -> The legal status of the Duchy of Cornwall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TGG



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Kernow GB


Network this topic
Digg It
Del.icio.us
Slashdot It!
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 9:10 pm    Post subject: Duchy created to provide an Income? Reply with quote

Why are Cornish organisations promoting this modern 'official' myth about why the Duchy was created?

See TGGComment => 'C'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scottish Republican



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 707


Network this topic
Digg It
Del.icio.us
Slashdot It!
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's probably a number of reasons as to why the Duchy came about.

The most basic is that in a feudal society, you need money to buy off your thugs to prevent others taking them from you.

Another is that Cornwall, being next to the Continent is strategically important, and could provide a beach head for a marine invasion of England (I'm convinced there is some similar logic in holding onto the Six Counties).

Another is that it is an extension of the old kingdom - i.e. it has been slowly absorbed and moulded so that it gradually came to be just a money raising exercise. Cornwall's hardly been singled out here - the Thirteen Colonies had the same problem. Cornwall's main problem was that it had a lot of mineral wealth.

The annexation may have been overnight, but the assimilation has taken a long time, and many Cornish believe that they are English.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TGG



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Kernow GB


Network this topic
Digg It
Del.icio.us
Slashdot It!
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a considerable amount of evidence [in the link] given above to show why the Duchy was created. Its date of creation/restoration (1337) is a rather telling date, given the trials and tribulations of the English kings at that period and the dawn of the English kings' 100 years war.

The 1399 Charter of 1st Henry IV. to Prince Henry, the eldest Son of that King, states:
Quote:
"We have made and created Henry our most dear first-begotten Son, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester, and have given and granted, and by our Charter have confirmed to him the said Principality, Duchy, and Earldom, that he may preside there, and by presiding, may direct and defend the said parts. We have invested him with the said Principality, Duchy, and Earldom, per sertum in capite et annulum in digito aureum ac virgam auream juxta morem."

Slowly absorbed and moulded by a parasite in the same way as all its colonies, including Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Cornwall lacks the numbers and finance to make a decent fight against the 'might is right' brigade. Cornwall is a living example of the sophisticated excesses of our Imperial masters and a working model, perhaps, of how the English expanded their power and influence! Having said all that, it was not necessary to elevate Cornwall to a Duchy to continue with its exploitation!

Some do, indeed, now believe that they are English but a significant proportion do not. This state of affairs has only arisen because the democratic (so-called), English Imperial State hides the truth and blocks legal challenge. To protect its royals?. Let us not forget, also, the modern post-war recolonisation of Cornwall. I remember reading backalong that 'a nation at peace, has no history'! It is our challenge, therefore, to decolonise our history.

However, the point of this thread is to challenge those Cornish organisations that seem willing to play the Imperial English game suggested by the above title.

TGG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scottish Republican



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 707


Network this topic
Digg It
Del.icio.us
Slashdot It!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, I wouldn't give the British monarchy fifty years. They're on the way out big time. I suspect Australia, and possibly Canada will be republics within my lifetime.

Betty has managed to keep the thing together mainly by just doing her "duties" robotically and not expressing her opinions too often in public (unlike her husband). Charlie doesn't really fit the same bill, and if "Wills" dies and Harry gets in, then it's crunch time for Die englische Monarchie.

You'll have to work out what's going to happen when the monarchy disappears, which is probably some time this century. Unless it's pushed. If and when it does, this shall perhaps leave anomalous laws in Cornwall, unless they are not overruled by the European Union. The successor of the Duchy, may well just assume Cornwall is part of England, and her law, and do away with Cornish idiosyncrasies.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TGG



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Kernow GB


Network this topic
Digg It
Del.icio.us
Slashdot It!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot disagree with any of that, other than to suggest that it would either coincide with, or quickly follow a re-think on the complete constitutional make-up of the politically contrived, mythical 'Island of England' (aka 'Britain').

IMHO, the only real reason for pressing the Duchy issue with regard to the resolution of the Cornish Question is that it is a political necessity that we ignore at our own peril. MK take note! We need the Duchy like a hole in the head but it is proof of a constitutional - albeit repressed! - identity.

TGG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Fulup le Breton



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 530


Network this topic
Digg It
Del.icio.us
Slashdot It!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed the Duchy could even be an impediment to greater Cornish devolution and national recognition, but it is also clearly evidence of a part of our history when a special constitutional settlement for the Cornwall was considered appropriate and necessary.
_________________
The Cornish Democrat
Cornish Against Racism
The Breton Connection
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Scottish Republican



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 707


Network this topic
Digg It
Del.icio.us
Slashdot It!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Duchy is an impediment, and its existence is a very convincing argument for the unenglishness of Cornwall, but I think that there really needs to be a bigger movement in Cornwall. The Duchy business is a David and Goliath struggle. You either win it or lose it, and it's a bloody hard one.

The problem is that getting rid of it, may also pave the way for further anglicisation of Cornwall. English law is already treated as de facto in Cornwall, but may become de jure too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fulup le Breton



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 530


Network this topic
Digg It
Del.icio.us
Slashdot It!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scottish Republican,

I know what you are saying and I agree in part, but some in the Cornish movement are of the opinion that the Duchy of Cornwall is responsible for blocking the Cornish assembly bid and Cornish inclusion on the Council of Europes framework convention for the protection of national minorities (FCPNM).

I know one thing, if you try and request all documents produced by the government under the freedom of informations act for either of these two issues you get stonewalled, you should try it.

What have they got to hide?
_________________
The Cornish Democrat
Cornish Against Racism
The Breton Connection
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Scottish Republican



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 707


Network this topic
Digg It
Del.icio.us
Slashdot It!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They've got plenty to hide, but if you want to beat an enemy, you do not always attack it head on, or play by their own rules. They have resources and powers you do not, it's as simple as that. Legal frameworks can be very esoteric... the priority has to be to win Cornish people over in large numbers - because when that happens, the monarchy will have a harder time dealing with thousands than a dozen.

The UK calls itself a democracy, but there has never ever been any democratic consultation on the monarchy.

It's also supposed to be signed up to the UN, which has self-determination enshrined as a right. But whenever Scotland's ever had a crack at that, it's been in spite of the UN, not because of it. However, it is useful to show them up.

A number of books have been written on the Treaty of "Union" (or Anschluss) between Scotland and England. Many take the official view, but an unbiased analysis reveals that every section bar one or two have been violated. In fact our devolution settlement violates it to some degree. A lot of Scots realise that they have been hard done by in history, and try and rationalise it with things like our prowess in the army and empire, but it's not this that's won them over. Other things have however, like the fact that they can no longer pretend we're unviable, since we travel all over the world and see countries just like ourselves doing well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Random Information. 
 For many Cornish people and Cornwall, the Duchy, as shown by the Officers of the Duchy of Cornwall in 1855 in its dispute with the Crown over the ownership of the Cornish Foreshore, has quite a different significance, based on the original Acts and Charters of its creation. Cornwall itself in this framework is described, de jure, as a Duchy (as opposed to an ordinary county), and the Duchy estates are distinguished from the Duchy itself, having themselves been annexed and united to "the aforesaid Duchy". The Duke of Cornwall may even be described as Cornwall's head of state.  


Powered by FTI
There are a total of visits to this site since 13th July 07.