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Mike



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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:28 pm    Post subject: Kernewek Dasunys Reply with quote

A new web site is up and running on a proposed standard written form of Cornish:

http://www.dasunys.net/

The website has a downloadable 'summary' and a forum. As someone eagerly waiting for a single written form, experts comments would be welcome[/url]
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frenchie



Joined: 04 Apr 2007
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Location: Kernow


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like it has potential. I'm confused about these words though - "Wolc¨m / Dynnargh!" I recognise the latter but what is Wolcum? Is that their new version of welcome, if so, why is so different to Dynnargh?

It may have been better to use the Union Jack(ess) as the icon for the english version though..

How long do think it will be before the first argument kicks off? Smile
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Mike



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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolcum is a Late Cornish variant when the language was being influenced by the English language. I personally prefer dynnargh.

Dasunys seems a real attempt at compromise hence it allows several alternatives eg. dynnargh from Middle Cornish and wolcum from Late Cornish. Both are authentic.

That's my opinion and I'm quite impressed so far with Kernewek Dasunys (re-unified Cornish).

The download from the web site gives a lot more info.

Let the opinions begin Laughing
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Morvyl



Joined: 21 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,
I have got all the Middle Cornish texts on file and <wolcum> or similar spellings are attested more than 30 times for Middle Cornish alone. <Dynnargh> occurs much less frequently. Thus <wolcum> is not just Late Cornish, which is often, mistakenly, considered to be "corrupt", but an established Cornish word, albeit borrowed from English, that is found in texts as early as the Ordinalia. I completely agree with you that both are authentic. So it is up to you to chose which one to use.
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Evertype



Joined: 21 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolcum 22x
wolcumme 1x
wolcom 13x
welcum 26x
welcumma 1x
welcummys 1x
welcumbes 1x
welcom 9x
welcomma 1x

dynerghys 1x
dynyrghys 1x
dynnergh 1x
dynnerth 1x

There might be more, but the time for dinner is well come. Wink

One stanza in Bewnans Ke has welcum, wolcum, and dynnergh, each once. Smile
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frenchie



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is with this - and I am not a language student whatsoever - I now know, in my head at least, that dynnargh means welcome. Why? Because I see it on various signs around Cornwall; you could even say I've picked it up subliminally because it's out there in the real world. Now those signs that you see that have 'welcome' in many languages, and you see them quite often, if I saw 'welcum' written on one I'd probably think it was German or Danish or something like that and if someone pointed out to me it was in fact Cornish I probably have an argument with them.

I accept easily that certain words will vary slightly in this SWF debate but when words are changed as much as the above example it all gets a bit much. More to the point, if Cornish has always been a spoken language only, there shouldn't be that much difference between the variations. Then I read the posts on this forum and find that welcum is a variation of the english word. That can't be right, not to me anyway, surely the SWF arguments are causing enough problems for the newbie but to start adding mutated english words surely isn't the way to go? Surely 'welcum' is representing the 'death' of the language not the future; a time when Cornish was being replaced by english?

So, how do you justify claiming 'welcum' to be the best option? It does look like an english typo..
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Morvyl



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you say that the many French and Latin words that have been incorporated into the English language represent the "death" of this language? I think not. When languages are in contact borrowings occur, always have and always will. That doesn't necessarily mean that either of them are dying. I can, but it needn't. Cornish and English were in contact for 1000 years and it is only to be expected that words would have been borrowed.

This has nothing to do with the SWF debate. Both <dynerghy> and <wolcumma> are Cornish words, written down in Cornish literature. Their use is legitimate.
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Mike



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolcum, to me makes the language look stupid. Dynnargh is seen on many road signs to towns and is plausible. It is understandable why wolcum has not been taken up, it looks foreign Laughing
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frenchie



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This has nothing to do with the SWF debate. Both <dynerghy> and <wolcumma> are Cornish words, written down in Cornish literature. Their use is legitimate.


Fair point, though I'm not really questioning the authenticity of the word, more how it looks for one, and also the fact that dynnargh (dynerghy?) is already 'out there' so much.

Your post also has me confused again because you now present two different versions of the spelling of both words. Actually 'wolcumma' looks a lot better than wolcum, as that version looks a bit like ITA. - Does anyone remember ITA, I was one of the guinea pigs for ITA, which was all a bit cheezee.. Smile
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P_Trembath



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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone remember ITA, I was one of the guinea pigs for ITA, which was all a bit cheezee..
Unfortunatly, I do. I did not realise that you were that old Frenchie. Laughing
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 1997 was the 500th anniversary of the An Gof uprising and a commemorative march (Keskerdh Kernow 500) was held, which retraced the route of the original march from St Keverne, Cornwall via Guildford to London. A statue depicting An Gof and Flamank was unveiled at An Gof's home town of St. Keverne and a commemorative plaque was also unveiled at Blackheath.  


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